Quote# 136478

It’s hard to believe that countries even tolerate the presense of a practicing Muslim or a mosquito barracks. We and especially our children will pay with our liberty and lives for our willful ignorance. Look around everyone. We are ALL living in occupied countries. Churchill is our hero? We have no excuses.

The pope-head creature is an abomination. The Devil incarnate as far as I am concerned. I am now an xcatholic. Who the hell needs a doctrine like that with Muslim death mobs everywhere. Mad mad mad.

Mad Dad, Bare Naked Islam 10 Comments [2/7/2018 3:12:19 PM]
Fundie Index: 10
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 136474

The worst ideology is Roman Catholicism, which is in fact Babylonian and satanic, and islam was being created by the evil Vatican.
JESUS was a VICTIM of the Roman Empire, because His country was being occupied by this evil empire when He lived on earth, and it were the Romans who crucified Him.

The Roman Catholic CULT is in fact the hidden Roman Empire, disguised as a Christian church, but it's Satan's COUNTERFEIT of the real Body of Christ, which consists of the followers of JESUS, worldwide.
The Roman Empire in this so called 'Christian form' HATES the Jews and the real followers of JESUS, and it's responsible for hundreds of millions of victims, and not only in the past, like under Hitler (a Roman Catholic) or Stalin (a Jesuit priest), but also nowadays, because islam is a tool of this satanic Vatican, in order to get things done for the sake of LUCIFER, the hero of the (Jesuit) Pope and this CRIMINAL organisation.

I'm an ex-atheist from the Netherlands, and I'm not a simple and docile person.
I'm very outspoken, just like my HERO JESUS, and only death can stop me.
Get to know (y)our maker JESUS, because He is God who came on earth in the capacity of a human, in order to bear OUR sins on the cross, because He LOVES us.?

Hanss, Ezekiel 38 Rapture 14 Comments [2/7/2018 1:32:57 PM]
Fundie Index: 10

Quote# 136473

It was an ugly divorce, by my wife's choosing. When she left me in March of 2006, I had a forgiving spirit from the very beginning, starting my Soulwinning.info website in May of 2006 to “overcome evil with good” as the Bible says (Romans 12:21). U.S. sheriffs brought a divorce summons to my workplace in June of 2006. It came as a total surprise shock to me, like getting hit by a Mack truck. I wept uncontrollably for 3 hours. Once she signed the divorce papers, her ungodly attorney went to town destroying my life. I lost my paid home as a result of the divorce. I have been renting an apartment since I lost my home. My ongoing legal expenses reached $64,000, all coming out of my home. It didn't cost my x-wife one single penny, because she obtained a free-probono lawyer. This is how ungodly the courts are today. I am not bitter, I am just stating the facts. I have placed everything into God's hands and have perfect peace in my heart. I chose to LET GO, LET GOD!

...

I crawled into an independent Baptist church on Guam in November of 2013, and found some friends, so I thought, and started regaining my emotional strength. But because of my King James Bible only views, the Bob Jones camp at Harvest Baptist Church kicked me out in November of 2014. The associate pastor called Dr. Jack Hyles and me “a cult.” The pastors were upset over the excellent book, “NIV: The Antichrist's Bible” by Dr. Al Lacy, which I had given to the senior pastor as a gift. They were also offended by the doctrinally-sound book titled, “I Never Knew You” by Michael P. Bowen, which exposes false prophet Ray Comfort. I didn't realize at the time that the church had invited Ray Comfort in 2007 to speak at their church. So they kicked me out! I have been struggling to find a church family ever since on Guam, unable to do so, trying to get my life back on track, serving God and doing the best that I can on my own. It hasn't been easy. The people whom I had grown close to at Harvest Baptist Church in Watchcare Meetings in their homes, and at church and church events, for one year, and I loved, totally gave up on me and abandoned me when their pastors kicked me out. They just forgot about me completely. It felt like another divorce!

In desperation for fellowship I even contacted that same church earlier this year in March of 2017, all three pastors, humbly requesting permission just to attend their church services (with my promise not to cause any problems), just so I could be around other believers, but three times they denied my sincere request, telling me to go away. They are holding a grudge (James 5:9). It is best, since they don't believe right. I am presently praying and looking for a city to relocate to in the states. This has been a very difficult decision for me. There are literally tens of thousands of places to live in America. I am looking at independent Baptist churches, because that is what I need most, a church family. Lord willing, if and when I find a wife, or decide on a place to move, I will do so with the Lord as my strength. Psalms 27:14, “Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.”

Albeit, due to my neck pain, I am not able to be at all the services, which is why I am on disability. When I went to Harvest, I made myself go to church most of the time, because I wanted to be there, but it was difficult for me. I cannot tell you in words how much my neck pain dominates my life. As I type, the toothache-like pain is horrible, in the bony area of the back of my neck. I so much want to find a wife, as I have lived on my own for 11 long years, but don't want to marry a mean person, so I am being careful. I even signed up for eharmony, which so far hasn't worked out. I guess there aren't many single independent Baptist women out there! I pray daily for God's help and guidance (Philippians 2:13). Clearly, my situation is difficult, and I ask for your prayers. It is easy for people to judge at a distance. I judge no one. My own loss, emotional trauma and sufferings have humbled me and made me a much more understanding, forgiving and loving Christian. I am the biggest sinner I know, and I don't judge anyone.

David J. Stewart, Jesus is Savior 20 Comments [2/7/2018 1:32:42 PM]
Fundie Index: 8

Quote# 136470

skywatcher57:
It always disgusts me to see the evolutionary theory accepted and passed off as fact. To date, not a single evolutionist has been able to intelligently answer a simple question: Where did matter, the spark of life, and emotions come from? To date, as a rock collector, I've not heard a single rock cry out in pain when I crack it open! We believe in an Intelligent Designer, with copious amounts of scientific proof, while they believe we came from a rock! It takes more faith to believe the latter than the former. Liberals don't possess much critical thinking ability, do they!

ZappaSaid88:
Evolution is the study of the changes in biological organisms over time. It has nothing to do with origins. And if you have so much scientific proof please publish your scientific study and collect your Nobel prize.

skywatcher57:
With all due respect, your statement is foolish, as we both know that Evilution focuses upon origins; all else is secondary.

Enniscorthy:
No, Zappa is quite correct. Evolution deals with change. If it's origins you want, the subject is cosmology, or abiogenesis.

skywatcher57:
You do realize that development can be seen as evolution, in the losest (sic) sense of the word, right? You do realize that there is a difference between this kind of evolution/development than engineering by human intervention, right? All too often, we are using the words, "evolved" and "evolution" out of context and too generally, without adhering to its pure form as modern science attempts to indoctrinate us with.

TheKingOfRhye:
"You do realize that development can be seen as evolution"
Yeah, they are synonymous. That's why, if you're talking about evolution of life, you're not talking about its origin, you're talking about its development, aka evolution.
It doesn't mean someone studying evolution has to ignore any questions of the origin of life, it just means that if they do start dealing with that, they're not talking about evolution any more.

skywatcher57:
How long did the mouth have to sit around and wait for the second cell to evolve so it could digest its food? How long before the rectum evolved? If I sit around for the next 250 m. years waiting for my wings to grow, I'd never get off the ground. See how foolish your belief system is?! The single-celled amoeba would die while waiting for the common sense to know what to do with its food. Enough of the circular thinking; I have more important things to do, and I'm NOT conceding!


skywatcher57, Christian News Network 16 Comments [2/7/2018 11:56:53 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 136467


Yes, this picture is Photoshopped and Satan is an ANGEL without an ANUS, but you get the idea
The Vatican is behind all CORRUPTED Bibles!




[...]

2 Thessalonians 2:3 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

The RIGHT translation of the Greek word 'apostasia' into departing (departure is also good)

2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV

KJV - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

The WRONG translation of the Greek word 'apostasia' into 'a falling away'



SATAN HATES THE RAPTURE = the DEPARTURE!


Why?


Because he wants to SLAUGHTER ALL true, born again, Holy Spirit filled followers of JESUS Christ!


Hanss, Ezekiel 38 Rapture 14 Comments [2/7/2018 4:04:25 AM]
Fundie Index: 8

Quote# 136465

Jay McHue:
Please formulate a repeatable test for evolution to prove that it's science. Thank you.

Richard Forrest:
Take a population of organisms and examine their genetic makeup.
Subject them to environmental stress over many generations.
Examine the genetic makeup of the resultant populations.
If there is a change, evolution by natural selection has occurred. That is using the term in the sense for which it was coined by the people who coined it.
It's been done over and over again. There is a huge body of scientific literature on the subject,
No matter how much you may wish it otherwise, evolution is a phenomenon of nature we can observe in action in the natural world and replicate in the laboratory. If that contradicts your religious dogma, perhaps you should examine the epistemological basis of your beliefs.

Jay McHue, Christian News Network 8 Comments [2/7/2018 12:04:12 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 136464

That's a very good question! He DID show up, and that's why we celebrate Christmas and Easter...you know...those two holy days you get paid for that you don't believe in. You see, even if you are correct, and the world possesses a few lunatics, the whole world couldn't possibly be deceived by the same lie! Further to that, people wouldn't be willing to lay their lives down for a lie, would you? We have the historical accounts of Christ's ministry, crucifixion, death, and resurrection. We also have historical accounts as to how the Apostles died in defense of their faith in Christ. In fact, a Jewish Roman historian by the name of Josephus wrote about him at great length, as did other historians.

Part 2 of my answer is, why would God want to stay where He's not wanted? Where He's been literally kicked out and replaced with paganism and evil? He DOES show up for those of us who are members of His family, because daily, we invite Him to do so. He is a perfect gentleman, and will only stay where invited and welcome. Don't believe me? Try Him out and see!

Let's say Christians are wrong about their beliefs, theoretically speaking of course, enjoying miracles and blessings along the way... then why is it so important for non-Christians to want to exterminate and to mock and persecute them? Why not just let them live and let live, as you folks desire? I'll tell you why...we have the truth, and rather than accept the truth that there is a Judgment Day coming, it is easier and more popular to try to decry that fact, so one can continue living a life of debauchery and / or self-servience without repercussion, so they theorize.

You see, AlienFactor, if we didn't have the truth, you wouldn't be wasting your time arguing with us, trying to prove something that is impossible to prove.

I've proven my point much more than you even attempted to prove yours! The Holy Bible says, "God is love", I John 4: ver.8, 16. Only a fool would say love doesn't exist! If you've ever experienced love on any level, you've experienced God. Love and morality don't just suddenly evolve from a chamber pot of slurry or any other material matter. It has to have an origin.

Skywatcher57, Christian News Network 22 Comments [2/7/2018 12:04:06 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Bob J

Quote# 136463


Killing is always wrong. If you kill a non-human animal, painful or not, it's disgusting.
It's also worse than having sex with one without the consent of one

Another- Realm, Deviantart 11 Comments [2/7/2018 12:04:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: FSM

Quote# 136462

in a thread about a guy being executed for transporting drugs in singapore

Singapore wants to run a law enforcement and deterrent experiment that fits in with their culture and goals as well as protects its citizens from a threat up to and including death themselves. I see no problem with that. The guy chose to play the game and lost. The game was completely consensual from the start just like two high school kids playing chicken. Sure, it is a shame when someone dies but you can't really call anyone a victim.

I agree with everything you said Broomstick. I am having a really hard time trying to understand the opposing viewpoint on this one. Singapore doesn't want to kill anyone. They don't want people to courier drugs through or into their country. If someone does, they have to follow through with the promise. This guy was willing to assume the rewards (cash) for a job with a very specific set of risks. The job paid a lot because those risk were there.

People die everyday. This guy is very lucky because he gets to die under circumstances that he conscientiously chose. Most people don't have that luxury.I am having problems with some of the questions thrown around. "Wouldn't you have a problem with an American woman getting executed in the Sudan for consciously engaging in this or that illegal thing?"
Hell, fuck, no. No unless she was wrongfully prosecuted, framed, or illegally coerced. One of the greatest human freedoms is to assume risk for conscience actions up to and including death. Anyone can opt out of that arrangement at any time.
Where is the call for tolerance of other cultures here? Singapore has a very thriving and well established culture. They don't randomly pick people to execute or torture I fail to see the problem. Does the tolerance of other cultures only extend to somewhat Americanized people that like to smoke pot?


Some of the legitimate criticisms of death penalty in the U.S. are that it takes too long and that it is unevenly applied. That makes it a less effective deterrent as well as needlessly expensive. Singapore is a good model in this regard. They institute it in a way that is fair and efficient. We should work to emulate their model. Kooks among us seem to love implementing Asian ideas when it comes to crackpot medicine and other things but draw the line when it comes to effective social and legal measures.

Again, why are so many people bigoted against a prosperous culture that most of their citizens admire and outsiders are never forced to step foot in? You should think about your level of cultural tolerance. You can't just take the superficial fruit-loop parts from around the world and call yourself enlightened. This is the real deal. Bigotry is frowned upon.
...

No, you are missing the point. It doesn't matter that that's the law in Singapore. What matters is that Singapore's law is wrong.


Why is the death penalty "wrong" in this case? If I say it is "right" two times does that cancel out yours? Drug trafficking is wrong on many levels and directly affects other people up to and including death of users and innocents. It is in no way comparable to simply "being" Jewish or anything else. It is an actively chosen and plotted crime with great risks to individuals and societies.

How is the law wrong in your own words? You must be evaluating it according to some external criteria. Is it direct from the word of God or is just part of a quasi-religious humanistic belief? Where did you get this information and how did you process it?

I just look at it like Singapore really doesn't want drugs in their country. That is understandable and it is hardly a victimless crime. People know the consequences and the reason for engaging in it is almost purely financial. I see no problem in opening it up detention, whipping, the death penalty, or live slow dissection if that is what they think is best.

...
Shagnasty, you refute that "societal context" has any relevance to the situation. However, here you admit that alcohol can be a drug with a terrible influence in some people's lives, and then condemn illegal drug dealers.


My "societal context" rebuttal simply means that the harm drug and alcohol addiction causes can't be controlled by overriding social influences nor can its effects be anything other than detrimental in any society. Those are fundamental physiological and psychological processes and they have nothing to do with any society once you get to the point of addiction.

You are correct that the re-legalization of alcohol was probably the best alternative in the U.S. That isn't necessarily true when you talk about crack, the opiates, and meth.

I am a libertarian. That means that I believe in few restrictions on individual freedom and that the ultimate accountability lies with the individual. I was once for the legalization of drugs. However, I sat down one night and tried to come up with a realistic way that this would be implemented. I could not do it. I have come to the conclusion that like, nuclear weapons, a good libertarian can be against the legalization of some things that cause mass harm.

I have yet to hear a workable plan on how the legalization of hard drugs would work at a detailed level. I would love to hear one.

Shagnasty, The straight dope 5 Comments [2/7/2018 12:03:51 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 136371

Sinful compromise always begins by indirectly supporting evil. For example: I know a Baptist pastor who professes to be King James Bible only, yet he sinfully supports another local church that uses, sells and promotes corruptible seed (i.e., the Alexandrian Bible perversions). He calls the corruptible-seed-spreading-church his “sister church.” That pastor has a spiritual whore for a sister! He talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. And in so doing he sinfully bids Godspeed to evildoers. 2nd John 1:11, “For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” The Bible says this so-called “King-James-Bible-only-pastor” has blood on his hands and is GUILTY, as if he partook of the same evil of corrupting the Word of God, because he openly supports, tolerates and befriends them! Our shameful churches today, including independent Baptists, have become so indifferent that they no longer see the need to preach and stand against those churches who have sold out to Satan's Bible perversions!!!

David J. Stewart, Jesus is Savior 13 Comments [2/6/2018 5:25:23 PM]
Fundie Index: 7

Quote# 136450

Amos Moses:
CONSENT IS IRRELEVANT when a 12-13 year old can consent to just about anything ......... IRRELEVANT ........ "You don't even know what my worldview IS. " ....and you have argued here long enough for your views to be known ....... JUST as you have made it known right now on this topic ......... so stick that in your ear ........... you have plainly said you are an "agnostic atheist" ...... and more than once .......

TheKingOfRhye:
Okay then....answer me this question: Why is rape bad? (if you think it is bad, that is....I can't too be around sure sometimes)

Amos Moses:
YOU answer why rape is bad ..... as an "agnostic atheist" you have absolutely no basis to say it is good or bad or evil or vile or wonderful or any other thing ...... you have NO OBJECTIVE MORALITY to even say one thing about it ....... except that YOUR PERSONAL OPINION is that you do not like it ....... and that is about it .......... only YOUR OPINION ..... no OBJECTIVE STANDARD ......

TheKingOfRhye:
Nuh-uh. I asked you the question. If you can't answer a simple question, there's no point in having this conversation.

Amos Moses:
NOPE ..... you CANNOT EVEN GET to a charge of "rape" as you have no OBJECTIVE MORALITY to even come to a conclusion that a "rape" even EVER occurred EVER ........... PROVE that anything whatsoever is "rape" ...... you claim "rape" ..... PROVE YOUR CLAIM ...... but according to an "agnostic"view that probably is "unknowable" ..... and from an "atheistic" point of view it is just this bit of biological protoplasm doing something to ANOTHER bit of biological protoplasm and you do not like it ......... and it is JUST YOUR OPINION ............ "rape" requires a MORAL judgement ..... and YOU have ABANDONED that ..........

TheKingOfRhye:
So, yeah....you're basically telling me you need your god to tell you that rape is wrong, which is pretty much where I thought you were gonna go.


Amos Moses, Christian News Network 21 Comments [2/5/2018 4:20:52 PM]
Fundie Index: 16
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 136449

Amy, something you obviously don't know is that "single-celled" amoebas WERE single-celled in Darwin's day because he had a very limited microscope. Technology has come a long ways since Darwin, and with telescopes MANY MORE times powerful than the one he used, they have since discovered that there are no single-celled anythings! Did you also know that Darwin confessed on his deathbed that he was sorry that he ever devised the evolutionary THEORY because it became a religion, and that was never his intent.

By the way...natural selection NEVER produced another species; the manipulation and interference of man has! When left alone, every species reproduces "after its own kind", just as God commanded... just as it has done now for thousands of years. Sadly, you're the product of a number of years of successful brainwashing by the school system. I'm sure that if we had the teaching that pedophilia was normal, you'd rise up against it. So, why don't you rise up against this deceitful THEORY that has never been proven and cannot be?

Skywatcher57, Christian News Network 27 Comments [2/5/2018 4:20:16 PM]
Fundie Index: 11

Quote# 136448

It always disgusts me to see the evolutionary theory accepted and passed off as fact. To date, not a single evolutionist has been able to intelligently answer a simple question: Where did matter, the spark of life, and emotions come from? To date, as a rock collector, I've not heard a single rock cry out in pain when I crack it open! We believe in an Intelligent Designer, with copious amounts of scientific proof, while they believe we came from a rock! It takes more faith to believe the latter than the former. Liberals don't possess much critical thinking ability, do they!

Skywatcher57, Christian News Network 17 Comments [2/5/2018 4:20:09 PM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 136437

(Reactions to James Delingpole's article)

(proreason)
This illustrates one of the core problems with liberals of all stripes. They have no limits on their unhinged desire to control everybody and everything around them.

(aka Randy Yonkers)
The left is driven by toxic emotions.
They thrive on the control they get from making themselves and everyone around them miserable. They label destruction and misery "Progress". They manufacture pain and rage and sell it for profit, by taxing a guilted public and forcing them to pay for the "cure".

(Eskel Gorov)
The entire concept of "AGW" is preposterous. Even if there were an AGW "consensus" (which there categorically is not), it's irrelevant. Consensus is not now, nor has it ever been, a part of scientific process. Relying on those more educated than you are is just fine until science becomes corrupted by politics and the politician's eternal quest for more tax dollars from the uninformed. AGW is indeed about politics, wealth redistribution, and crowd control. We can and should be better stewards of our planet; but, we don't need to abandon all scientific process and commit suicide in order to do so. This stewardship has little or nothing to do with CO2. Regardless, a consensus of people from NOAA, NASA,and the IPCC who have all been caught red-handed altering data to meet their failed modeling assumptions is worthless on its face. Failed models, failed theory, end of story.

(redpilldebtslave)
CO2 is plant food. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas too and the earth is covered by a bunch of it. Imagine if they went after water like they do the energy industry. We need politics to stay out of science. This all fell apart when they got caught falsifying data. Follow the money.
Leftists are the science deniers! LOL! Too funny!

(ricocat1)
Those liberals who are concerned about CO2 should hold their breaths until they turn blue. Don't exhale. No CO2. No liberals. Problem solved.

(Trump Train aka Honey Badger)
These liberals idiots would have rather breathed nuclear fallout by voting for HRC... end of the planet for sure!
There is no greater contaminant then of one’s mind, you can thank the liberal ideology for that!
Our youths minds are being poisoned all across the campuses in America by these liberal professors.
President Trump already saved the planet by defeating the nuclear holocaust know as HRC, ending the Paris Accord, slashing the EPA and ending big bureaucratic regulations!

(Johnny)
these people are seriously mental defects and delusional,, they dont stop to think who is going to fund these places without republican support,, liberals arent going to part with weed money to keep the lights on

(proreason)
Allow me to crystalize your comment a bit more. I think it has a core that is a real insight. You said: "these people...dont stop to think".

Liberals are too p*ssed off at everybody else for not complying with their manias to think about anything other than enforcing their will.

(Pleiades R)
"bite the hand that feeds them" comes to mind

both comments so valid, so many liberals I know think work is beneath them, they spend money on the latest cell/computer/clothing/shoes/entertainment/restaurants... then complain insurance, utilities, necessities are too expensive.... some are on assistance, but they own a "vape", a big screen tv and cable...

they make fun of me for having an old phone and not dressing expensively... I don't have cable or a tv.... but, I pay my own way...

amusingly they support open borders... if only they were destroying their own world, not the world we share...

(redpilldebtslave)
I often tell them they advocate their own destruction. By destroying the family and abusing the legal system, we have today's society. That is advocating for the leftists grand utopia. Leftists advocate their own destruction. Everybody must suffer as they do.
I usually say it just like that. They accuse me of making threats on the leftist sites. All I do is predict their futures.

(Jon)
These climate nuts are out of control.

Please support our Vets and Police! Boycott the Superbowl this weekend! #Boycottsuperbowl #PleaseStand

(Eric Simpson)
It's a consensus of ideology, not of science. Notice that nearly every conservative scientist does not believe the leftist scam.

(rennyangel2)
Not, "conservative" scientists but many REAL scientists who study cause and effect, are knowledgeable about history, and are not trying to impose their own views on outcomes or results.
There is a current complaint in the scientific community that too many "experiments" are not repeatable, as they should be if the same processes are followed, and I think the problem with replicating in today's science is because too many choose a pre-determined outcome and then force their "experiment" into the desired result. No wonder, one scientist has trouble producing the same conclusion, again.

(earlysda)
The problem in science is that they fell for a different god than the the Creator (Jesus Christ), and have been wandering in the darkness ever since.

(Reno Rivera)
Doesn't matter. The left lost on this one.

I don't feel sorry for the fickle, Rebekah Mercer. She's getting some payback here for betraying Bannon.

Also, she is not behind BB and never one who made BB popular.

I guess she is now since Bannon left and BB becoming effeminate with increased People Magazine type and news stories.

(earlysda)
Sadly, most of our youth are taught the doctrines of Evolution as "scientific fact", when actually, even Richard Dawkins admits: "Evolution hasn't been observed while it's happening".

(Mash Draggin)
Science is being subverted and swallowed up by politics, and the fact that there are so many marxists at our universities is a big reason why. The left wants to use science as a political weapon. It's actually slowing down real scientific advancement too.

various commenters, Breitbart 11 Comments [2/5/2018 4:19:53 PM]
Fundie Index: 10

Quote# 136436

Delingpole: Climate Bully Mob Tries to Oust Trump Supporter from Natural History Museum

If, like me, you love the American Museum of Natural History (AMNH) in New York, here is a question I can guarantee you’ve never asked.

Never once — as you’ve circumnavigated the blue whale or gawped at those marvelous Teddy Roosevelt-style dioramas in the mammal halls or admired the T-Rex’s jagged 6-inch gnashers — have you paused in deep thought and mused to yourself: “Gee. I wonder if the guys who pay for all this stuff are Democrats or Republicans?”

The reason you’ve never had this thought is because you’re not stupid. Or at least, not that stupid.

You understand — because it’s so obvious that even one of the stuffed primates in the Akeley Hall of African Mammals could grasp this basic point — that the collections in the American Museum of Natural History have nothing whatsoever to do with politics. They have to do with science, which is something completely different.

Science is about studying what is. Politics is about what ought to be or what might be. Science is about objectivity. Politics is about subjectivity.

They really don’t mix and when people try to make them mix it’s a disaster. To believe otherwise, you’d have to deny all the evidence of history, know nothing about the scientific method and be really, really thick.

Thicker than a pickled cuttlefish in a jar of surgical spirit; dumber than a lobotomized mollusk; more basic than an amoeba with severe learning difficulties.

o bearing all this mind, what should we feel towards the bunch of 182 self-proclaimed “scientists” who have written an open letter to the AMNH demanding that it cut its links with trustees and donors whose politics they find objectionable?

My suggestion would be: a mix of pity, embarrassment, and disgust.

Plus, maybe, a judicious soupçon of horror that such imbeciles could have been given tenure at any academic institution where the teaching of impressionable young adults is involved even at all, let alone where it’s financed by hard-working U.S. taxpayers.

So that means you, Michael “Hockey Stick” Mann, Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science and director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State University; and you, Naomi Oreskes, Professor of the History of Science and Affiliated Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences at Harvard University; and you, Kerry Emmanuel, Cecil & Ida Green Professor of Atmospheric Science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology; and you, many of you others among the 182 signatories of this bizarre, outrageous, and embarrassing letter.

You have these ritzy sounding titles which seem to confer on you an aura of gravitas and scientific distinction. But by putting your names to this spectacularly dumb letter — of which more in a moment — you have relinquished all claim to be taken seriously as voices of scientific authority. You are all, basically, frauds.

Why? Because what you are engaging in here patently isn’t about science. Nor is it, as you profess, about the well-being and credibility of the American Museum of Natural History. No, this is about low-down, dirty political activism. It’s Antifa with a PhD.

Let’s examine in more detail what these fake-science terrorists are demanding in their letter.

Headed “Open Letter from Scientists to the American Museum of Natural History,” it begins with a paragraph wreathed in apparent high-mindedness and dispassionate concern.

The American Museum of Natural History in New York (AMNH) is a treasured and influential institution. Museums must be protected as sites that build understanding, help the public make meaning, and serve the common good. We are concerned that the vital role of science education institutions will be eroded by a loss of public trust if museums are associated with individuals and organizations known for rejecting climate science, opposing environmental regulation and clean energy initiatives, and blocking efforts to reduce pollutants and greenhouse gases.


Pretty soon, though, it shows its true colors:

Rebekah Mercer and the Mercer Family Foundation, political kingmakers and the financiers behind Breitbart News, are major funders of climate science denial projects such as the Heartland Institute, where they have donated nearly $6 million since 2008. The Mercer Family Foundation is also a top donor to the C02 Coalition and the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, institutions that assert that an increase in C02 emissions from fossil fuels will be a great benefit to plant and animal life on Earth.


Yup. Like I said this has nothing to do with science, let alone with concern for the integrity of the AMNH. This is a political hit job co-ordinated by a bunch of malicious, embittered second-raters. They’ve been losing the scientific argument on climate change for years, so instead they’re fighting back in the only way they know how: using dirty, underhand guerrilla tactics.

To give you an example of how desperately feeble their case is, here’s the Twitter thread that supposedly prompted the letter:

https://twitter.com/jonahbusch/status/949774167276220416/photo/1

This is so obviously a put up job it’s embarrassing. Read the label for yourself. In vain will you find anything “shocking” or “saddening.” It’s restrained, sensible, factually accurate: a model, in fact, of what the displays at the American Museum of Natural History should look like.

But Busch — an environmental economist, by the way, not a palaeoclimatologist or a geologist: so it’s not like he’s bringing any special expertise to the party — pretends to have been triggered by that stuff about warm cycles and ice ages.

Talk about nitpicking. Talk about chutzpah! Talk about cry-bullying! What is this guy’s problem?

First, we are indeed living in an “interglacial period” — it’s called the Holocene — which is what you call the warm bits between ice ages.

Second, these interglacials do indeed move in roughly 10,000 year cycles.

Third, given that we’re around 11,700 years into this particular interglacial, it is indeed quite possible that — as the label very sensibly concedes — we could be due for another ice age.

Yet even though all the stuff on the label is unexceptionable and factually accurate, Busch claims to be so appalled that he has been forced to throw his toys out of the pram on social media and demand a retraction.

On what basis?

Here — in his follow up tweet — is his attempt at a justification:

https://twitter.com/jonahbusch/status/949774372197330945/photo/1

Oh great. A single paper, published in Nature — an organ notorious for disseminating parti-pris studies pal-reviewed by climate alarmists on the scaremongering global warming gravy train. A paper, furthermore, which is dependent on the kind of computer models — “our simulations” — which have been repeatedly and comprehensively falsified by real world observations.

So, to recap: a climate activist on Twitter cooks up a #fakenews story in which he claims, on no evidence, that the American Museum of Natural History’s scientific integrity is being corrupted by right-wing donors; though the story is factually inaccurate in almost every conceivable way, this #fakenews incident is then used as the pretext for an open letter to the museum by 182 other climate activists demanding that it take action to deal with this non-problem.

Their letter claims:

Last week thousands of people shared a Twitter comment by environmental economist Jonah Busch, PhD, who pointed out misleading information on climate science in an Exxon-funded exhibit at the American Museum of Natural History. To its credit, the AMNH’s response was swift: it committed to updating the outdated information to reflect the best available science. But the initial online public anger showed that trust in the museum is undermined by the museum’s association with climate science opponents.


It concludes by demanding:

We ask the American Museum of Natural History, and all public science museums, to end ties to anti-science propagandists and funders of climate science misinformation, and to have Rebekah Mercer leave the American Museum of Natural History Board of Trustees.


This is outrageous. Allow me to spell out why.

The signatories of that letter make a big deal of the fact that their primary concern is the museum’s credibility.

But what could be more damaging to a museum’s credibility than if it were to fire some of its most generous, committed trustees, to cut off part of its income stream, and to change the factually accurate labelling on its exhibits purely to accommodate the petulant demands of a shrill bully mob of left-leaning academics who have rejected science in favour of political activism?

As Homewood notes:

This attempt by a gang of self appointed, second rate scientists to exclude people from jobs with public bodies, or indeed any sort of association at all, simply because of their politics, is extremely dangerous.

It is the sort of behaviour one would normally associate with communist and fascist juntas, and needs to be fought tooth and nail.


Yes, indeed.

JAMES DELINGPOLE, Breitbart 6 Comments [2/5/2018 4:19:46 PM]
Fundie Index: 7

Quote# 136432

When I was 29 I became paralyzed and was unable to talk. As a result, I became insensitive to everything around me. A few years later, a stomach problem made it necessary for me to have three surgeries, but the incisions became infected and kept draining and wouldn't heal. We had to sell our house to pay my medical bills. We couldn't even afford school for our two children. All we had to live on was my wife's meager income from selling vegetables. Day after day, I was desperate. I didn't know where life was going to take me.

In October 1998, when I was 43, life surprised me with the most precious gift I could ever have imagined – the book Zhuan Falun, the main text of the practice of Falun Gong (also known as Falun Dafa). At that time, my wife had been practicing Falun Gong for some time. She was amazed by the profound principles discussed in the book as well as the tremendous improvements in the health of its practitioners. She recommended that I give Falun Gong a try. As my wife handed me the book Zhuan Falun, I felt a sense of excitement. I sat in bed and flipped through the pages. It was so captivating that I couldn't stop reading. From cover to cover, I read it five times.

I was concentrating so hard that I didn't notice the infected surgical wounds that had bothered me for years had healed while I was reading. Many other uncomfortable feelings were also gone. After so many years, I finally felt hope in my life. My wife encouraged me to study the book with other practitioners. Although I still couldn't talk, I agreed, thinking that this was something I should do.

There were more than 40 people in the group. After everybody sat down, they began to take turns reading, one by one. When it was my turn to read, I thought in my heart, “Teacher, please help me, I want to read the book with them.” With that thought, a powerful and strong warm energy went through my body. At that moment, I was able to talk! As I read, tears streamed down my face. Everyone was looking at me in astonishment. We were all overjoyed by the immense power of the practice. As I continued to study the teachings, do the exercises, and improve my mind based on Falun Gong's three principles—Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance—my body was constantly purified.

During the times that the pathogenic karma was being purged from my body, I was in enormous pain all over. But, interestingly, when I went to watch Teacher's lectures with other practitioners at night, all the pain disappeared. After I returned home, the pain came back. After more than 20 days of this body purification, everything returned to normal. I felt that my body was very light and I was filled with energy.

I found a delivery job to help support my family. Although some jobs are very labor intensive, I was able to do it with ease and finish on time. One time, I rode a tricycle about 50 miles to deliver glasses to the countryside, but I didn't feel tired at all. Another time, I transported nearly 60 bags of sand and concrete to the 6th floor in one hour. Amazed by my recovery, many friends and family members also began to practice Falun Gong.

Xin Sheng, Minghui 5 Comments [2/5/2018 4:18:17 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 136396

Lady Checkmate's headline: "Is transgenderism a state-sponsored religion?" (NOTE: Not the same submission from earlier - she posted the same article on both of her channels to different responses)

Buddy:
What benefit would anyone get from "sponsoring" a trans gendered religion?

Lady Checkmate:
Ask the members of these churches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_affirming_LGBT)
- note those are all apostate churches.

Buddy:
I'm not following. That URL brought up nothing.

Lady Checkmate:
Lol, now your just being dishonest. Good day.

Lady Checkmate, Disqus - News Network 16 Comments [2/5/2018 4:16:35 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 136393

I started practicing Falun Dafa in 1998. Unlike many practitioners, I can see with my Celestial Eye and my supernatural abilities are not locked. I'd like to share the following personal experiences with my fellow practitioners. When I went to visit my cousin in December 1998, one of her neighbors was there trying to convince her to practice Falun Gong. I chatted with them about Buddhism and showed them how to sit in the lotus position. I borrowed several of her books. I was very excited to start reading Zhuan Falun, one of the five books I'd borrowed, when I got home. I read through lecture eight in one sitting. Then I saw strange images on the walls as if there was lightning everywhere. I was surrounded by lightning. My forehead and the top of the head seemed to be bulging. When I closed my eyes, I saw that the room was filled with red light.

Just then my mother woke up and told me to go to sleep. I laid down and had a very vivid dream. I saw a Buddha with a body of white jade flying toward me. Her legs were crossed and her hands were in the jieyin position. She looked at me and her mouth moved as if she was saying something. There were tears in her eyes. I looked at her as I lay in bed. I raised my hands toward her, trying to call her, but I couldn't make a sound. She saw me getting up and backed off, flew away, and disappeared. Then I heard my mother call me. She asked me what I was yelling about. I woke up and told her that I'd had a dream. The next day, my cousin's neighbor came to get her books, which I returned reluctantly. I went to the practice site the day after. That's how I started practicing Falun Dafa.

In less than ten days, Master cleansed my body. I saw many Faluns rotating around me. My Celestial Eye opened and I could see lives in other dimensions. I have also developed supernatural abilities. If I wanted to do something, I only needed to think about it, and it would happen. I saw my Immortal Infant grow to two feet high. I could also see my past lives. In one past life, I was an abbot in a monastery.

I have experienced six big tribulations that could have taken my life if Master had not protected me. The first time was about two weeks after I started practicing Falun Dafa. One day I was asked to help a neighbor harvest corn. My job was to put the kernels into big gunny sacks next to a thresher. As I bent over to shove the kernels into a sack, I heard a noise like metal banging on metal. I felt the belt of the threshing machine scrape my head. Then I heard people calling my name. As I stood up, I saw a big Falun rotating where my head had been, then it flew away. Someone quickly stopped the thresher and people surrounded me. “You are so lucky. If your hair got pulled in, it would have pulled your scalp off,” one of them said. As it turned out, a steel pin that held the moving belt had hit my head. That was the noise I'd heard. I knew Master had saved my life.

In 2003, I went to Changchun to work at a candy factory. One day I was hit by a car while crossing the street. I flew into the air and landed on my head. The car stopped about 20 meters away. The bystanders yelled, “Car accident! Someone is dead!” I slowly got up and picked up my shoes. I didn't let the driver take me to the hospital or extort money from him as the bystanders suggested I do. However, I felt tired in the following days and always wanted to sleep. One night as I was doing the second exercise at home, I felt a big hand holding my head and another hand tickling my nose with a feather. A voice next to me said, “Do not worry about anything when you are doing the exercise.” I kept my eyes closed and continued with the exercise. Suddenly, I felt my whole body vibrate briefly. I was surrounded by a wave of heat that rotated around my body. Then I felt hot air blowing into my face, and I couldn't help but sneeze. I told myself not to move.

I felt liquid dripping from my nose, then one blob after another. By the time I finished the exercise, my shirt was covered with blood and blood clots. There was blood on the floor as well. But my head was very clear, and I no longer felt tired or sleepy. I suspect I had internal bleeding in my head from the car accident, but Master helped clean it up. After that incident, my gong increased even more. I had more powerful supernatural abilities. I reached beyond-triple-world Fa. I even saw a small child come out of my nose.

I value Falun Dafa books more than my life. I have all of the Dafa books and articles Master has written, as well as other materials from the Minghui website. One time, a neighbor came to visit and saw me reading one of the books. He saw that I kept my books, tape player, and exercise tapes in a red cardboard box. I had a bad feeling after he left. I took everything out of the box and put some turnips in it. A little while later, the police came with my neighbor and ordered me to hand over my Dafa books. I took out the box to show them. Of course, they couldn't find anything.

Another time, the police searched my home looking for truth-clarifying materials. I put the books in my father's room, the only room they did not search. I had a feeling they would be back, so I put the books in a sack that they had already searched. The police did come back the next day and went straight to my father's room. When they couldn't find anything, they came out and saw the sack with my books in it. I held the sack up and said, “You searched this yesterday. If you don't believe me, I will show you again.” One officer said, “No need.”

As soon as the police left, I took the books to my sister's home for safekeeping. After I left, my sister said, “I'll just give the police two books so that they won't bother us again.” My mother tried to stop her, but she wouldn't listen. She took out two books. As she started to leave with them, she felt someone push her from behind and she fell down. She ran back and told my mother, “These books really are Buddhist scriptures.”

Another time, my sister burned some of Master's new articles, about 20 pages worth. But the next day, she saw the pages in the ashes, not even scorched. She was shocked. She told me that she and her husband had burned them the night before. They both saw the pages go up in flames. After the persecution began, I started distributing informational materials like other practitioners. While using my supernatural abilities so that the police cannot see me, I often spend the whole night covering a thousand homes. From one village to the next, it only takes me a short time to get there even though they are far apart. The next day, I don't feel tired at all. Sometimes when I don't eat for three days, I can still work as usual.

One night, several of us went out to distribute Falun Dafa materials. We got separated. I turned around and saw one practitioner in front of a house, but she appeared so small, like the Lilliputians in Gulliver's Travels. I could have held her in my hand. I called her name. When she heard it, she immediately became the same size as before. Another time I was followed by a police car. I used my supernatural ability to outrun the car and hid in a cornfield. When the police got out of the car, they could not see me.

Unknown author, Minghui 4 Comments [2/5/2018 4:16:13 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 136384

I'm not blaming anyone. Doctor's don't tell patients these things either because they're not up to date on the literature or there tightly bound to the pharmaceutical industry's profit driven system (in the form of drugs). I never said it was a panacea either which is why I mentioned the exceptions near the end of my paragraph. Limiting a couple main foods is drastic and alienating? They'd actually SAVE money as well, as they'd be eating less (due to even blood sugar) and avoiding medical expenses in the future.

Nathan, Science-Based Medicine 2 Comments [2/5/2018 4:16:02 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 136383

@Simba:
Citation needed. I have known people follow a similar diet and lifestyle and develop depression.

"Exercise and get enough sleep" sounds like it could be convenient for moronic victim-blaming since depression, the disease itself, interferes with your ability to do those things. Imagine I had a broken leg "cure" that invilved running for ten miles a day. I could maintain my belief in that "cure" quite easily by just dismissing those unable to do that because, well, their leg is broken.


"I have known people follow a similar diet and lifestyle and develop depression"

It's not a similar diet and lifestyle then.

"Exercise and get enough sleep" sounds like it could be convenient for
moronic victim-blaming since depression, the disease itself, interferes
with your ability to do those things"

Maybe interferes with them, yes, but not flat-out prevents them from doing it like your absurd broken leg analogy. The point is, exercise and sleep are part of a whole. It's the many factors I mentioned that will lift depression. There are also other small changes in diet that help. If anyone doesn't believe this, they can easily take my suggestions to use for themselves. They have nothing to lose whatsoever.

@Jazz Let:
they can easily take my suggestions to use for themselves


This phrase, all by itself proves you know nothing about depression, nothing is easy when you are depressed, getting out of bed is an achievement, getting dressed too is often just too much.

But this -
They have nothing to lose whatsoever.

puts the icing on the cake of evidence for your ignorance of mental health as you have clearly never heard of suicide, look it up in a dictionary, then come back and explain to me how people with depression have nothing to lose by taking your advice rather than that of a qualified professional.


Nice fear mongering there. If there at that stage of depression (suicide) then they can simply use a dietary and lifestyle protocol as an adjunct to therapy (along with counseling or whatever they feel necessary).

Nathan, Science-Based Medicine 8 Comments [2/5/2018 4:14:38 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 136382

(Comment on a rebuttal to this)

All somebody needs to do is eliminate wheat and grains and any other high glycemic foods to overcome depression. Eat more fat, vegetables, supplement vitamin D, exercise, and get enough sleep (even going to bed before 10 or 11) and they'll find their depression goes away. In cases of a troubled past, PTSD, abuse or emotional trauma, the depression might remain more or less, but even in these cases the sufferer will be greatly relieved and able to manage their depression if not completely overcome it in the future.

(WLU)
The nice thing about your story here is that it places all of the responsibility for getting better squarely in the patients hands, so you can blame their depression on their own actions. It gives people a nice sense of vindication that their own lack of depression is due to their own actions, and is completely within their own control.
It's a tremendous pity it's complete bollucks.


You got it. That's the amazing thing about it. The patient is empowered to take charge of their own situation. Unfortunately the doctor never tells them this, so if anything, it's the doctors fault and not the patient's.

Nathan, Science-Based Medicine 6 Comments [2/5/2018 4:14:21 PM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 136378

Kennedy, Fisher and Bigtree: a triple dose of anti-vaccine injected into upcoming chiropractic conference
Even as the flu rages, chiropractors will be stoking their anti-vaccination ideology at a March conference with speeches from anti-vaxx Illuminati Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Barbara Loe Fisher and Del Bigtree.

Even as the flu season, with its consequent hospitalizations and deaths, rages on, chiropractors are outdoing themselves in promoting anti-vaccine ideology at this year’s “Freedom for Family Wellness 2018 Summit Washington, D.C.” (but actually in Reston, VA), scheduled for March. While in previous years so-called “chiropractic pediatrics” conferences have invited anti-vaccine hucksters like the disgraced and defrocked former British physician Andrew Wakefield and Barbara Loe Fisher, founder of the National Vaccine [Mis]Information Center, this year will feature not only Fisher, but also “Ranting Robert” F. Kennedy, Jr., fresh from his disappointment in not being named head of a proposed, but never realized, vaccine safety commission by fellow anti-vaxxer, President Trump, and Del Bigtree, producer of the widely discredited “documentary,” VAXXED. Attendees will get 24 hours of chiropractic continuing education credit in 37 states (so far), as well as D.C. and British Columbia.

The Summit is hosted by the International Chiropractic Pediatrics Association (ICPA), which promotes straight subluxation-based chiropractic treatment for pregnant women, infants and children. Well, actually, for anyone with a pulse, but that’s who they concentrate on. Its 2014 conference headliners were Fisher and Wakefield.

“Chiropractic pediatrics”

Before we get to the upcoming conference, let’s review the field of “chiropractic pediatrics,” its affinity for pseudoscience and hostility to vaccination. The ICPA is just one of three chiropractic pediatric groups, all of which support anti-vaccination ideology and promote chiropractic diagnosis and treatment of infants and children for both musculoskeletal and non-musculoskeletal conditions, including:

otitis media, asthma, allergies, infantile colic, . . . enuresis, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, myasthenia gravis, ADHD, and Tourette syndrome. For the most part, treatment for all of these conditions is based upon detection and correction of vertebral subluxations, . . . [even though] there is no scientific basis for the contention of chiropractors that subluxation correction will restore or maintain health or that such subluxations even exist.


In addition, pediatric chiropractors promote “wellness care” for children, advising that children should visit a chiropractor 6 to 12 times a year to be checked for phantom subluxations.

Another pediatric chiropractic group, the International Chiropractic Association’s (ICA) Council on Chiropractic Pediatrics, featured Wakefield at its 2016 conference, as well as a showing of VAXXED. In 2017, the ICA Council on Chiropractic Pediatrics conference participants were shown portions of the film Vaccines Revealed, essentially a parade of well-known and thoroughly debunked anti-vaccinationists, in some cases being interviewed by other anti-vaccinationists, produced by someone whose past work has promoted anti-vaccination views, who also spoke at the conference.

Chiropractic education in pediatrics consists of one 22-hour pre-clinical course in “pediatric topics” and chiropractors can graduate without ever having seen an actual pediatric patient in clinical training, which chiropractors themselves admit is inadequate. The ICA’s post-graduate courses (they don’t do residencies) which allow one to call oneself a “Diplomate” in chiropractic pediatrics, consist of less than 400 hours of classroom training in a series of weekend courses, sometimes in airport hotel conference rooms, with no hospital training and no contact with diseased or injured children. The ICA’s recommended books on vaccination contain plenty of anti-vaccination propaganda.

The third chiropractic pediatrics group, the American Chiropractic Association’s Council on Chiropractic Pediatrics promotes “the acceptance and advancement of pediatric chiropractic care.” Although it does not have its own training program, four out of five Council Board members are ICA “diplomates” in pediatric chiropractic, one Board member describing the program as a “3-year post-graduate course of study,” conveniently leaving out the part about the weekend courses and lack of clinical training.

The ICPA offers its own certification (200 hours) and diplomate programs (an additional 200 hours), under the auspices of the Academy of Chiropractic Pediatric Practice and is “endorsed and certified” by an organization called the Academy of Chiropractic Family Practice. Like the ICA, the ICPA teaches its courses in hotel conference rooms.

The ICPA also sponsors a certification in the Webster Technique, which is based on the biologically implausible and unproven notion that a chiropractic “adjustment” will “reduce the effects of sacral subluxation/SI joint dysfunction” facilitating “neuro-biomechanical function of the pelvis,” supposedly leading to an easier birth, even to the point of turning a breech baby (all the while denying that this is what they are claiming).

Chiropractic anti-vaccination ideology is not limited to chiropractic pediatrics. It is long-standing, firmly entrenched in chiropractic philosophy, and well-documented in the medical literature.

Anti-vaccination attitudes still abound within the chiropractic profession. Despite a growing body of evidence about the safety and efficacy of vaccination, many chiropractors do not believe in vaccination, will not recommend it to their patients, and place emphasis on risk rather than benefit.


One study found a correlation between seeing a chiropractor or a naturopath and lack of flu vaccination in pediatric patients. Another study found that children who saw chiropractors were significantly less likely to receive each of three CDC-recommended vaccinations. Yet another found that student anti-vaccination attitudes actually increased in the later years of chiropractic and naturopathic programs. Anti-vaccination attitudes among chiropractors have been documented by the mainstream media as well (also here and here).

It is thus that Kennedy, Fisher, and Bigtree find their ideal audience: a group preconditioned to uncritically accept their anti-vaccination message, impervious to science and evidence, yet perfectly positioned to spread their misinformation to patients and parents via their unlimited license to diagnose and treat any person of any age with virtually any disease or condition, thanks to state chiropractic licensing laws, aided by a closed loop, chiropractor-controlled system of education and regulation.

The “Summit”

Long-time anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who will be delivering the keynote at one evening session of the “Summit,” is no stranger to regular SBM readers. His crackpot ideas about vaccines, lies and conspiracy mongering have been the subject of numerous SBM posts. Kennedy continues to flog the debunked connection between thimerosal and brain disorders, including autism, long after thimerosal was, as a precaution, removed from pediatric vaccines and remains a trace ingredient only in some flu vaccines. Assisted by another person honored with an SBM post this very week, Mark Hyman, MD, he wrote a book promoting his discredited ideas. Our good friend Orac has extensively covered Kennedy as well. Among Kennedy’s anti-vaxx escapades:

* His article “Deadly Immunity,” an “anti-vax hit piece,” was riddled with so many errors that it was ultimately pulled from Salon’s archive.
* Calling CDC officials “criminals” because they area “poisoning kids” in an interview with fellow anti-vaccine crank Boyd Haley.
* Saying he’d like to see pediatric infectious disease physician and co-inventor of a childhood vaccine that saves thousands of lives, Paul Offit, MD, behind bars.
* Analogizing the CDC whistleblower manufactroversy to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment on black men, an analogy he dredged up again in describing a California bill (which has since become law) tightening vaccine exemption requirements, all the while cozying up to the racist and anti-Semitic Nation of Islam.

Well, you get the idea. But in case you don’t, Laura Helmeth nicely summarized Kennedy in Slate:

The short version of the vaccine conspiracy theory (if you are stuck on the phone with RFK Jr., you will be subjected to the long version) is that a vaccine preservative called thimerosal causes autism when injected into children. Government epidemiologists and other scientists, conspiring with the vaccine industry, have covered up data and lied about vaccine ingredients to hide this fact. Journalists are dupes of this powerful cabal that is intentionally poisoning children.


You’ve met Barbara Loe Fisher here on SBM too. In the heyday of the media’s penchant for reporting “both sides” of the vaccination manufactroversy, Fisher was the go-to gal for reliable fear-mongering about vaccines. She was, after all, a founder of the NVIC (a sponsor of the “Summit”), a source of vaccine “information” that claims to be neither for nor against vaccination, only for “safe” vaccinations and informed consent. Fisher’s talk is titled “Your Right to be Informed, Your Freedom to Choose.” By continuously moving the goalposts, the NVIC ensures that vaccination is never safe and that there is always a fresh supply of misinformation with which to scare parents from choosing vaccination for their child by exercising their (not the child’s) freedom to exempt the child from school vaccination requirements by claiming their (again, not the child’s) religious or philosophical opposition.

Fisher remains unrepentant after being excoriated by investigative journalist Seth Mnookin in his excellent book The Panic Virus (2011). Here’s how Mnookin described Fisher’s talk at a 2009 Autism One conference:

Barbara Loe Fisher, the grande dame of the American anti-vaccine movement, explained how vaccines are a “de facto selection of the genetically vulnerable for sacrifice” and said that doctors who administer vaccines are the moral equivalent of “the doctors at Nuremberg.” (That parallel, she said, had been pointed out to her by Andrew Wakefield . . .)


Finally, Del Bigtree will speak on “Finding our Freedom,” freedom apparently being a code word at the “Freedom for Family Wellness 2018 Summit” for “refusing vaccination based on bad science and debunked conspiracies.” Bigtree was recruited by Andrew Wakefield to make the “documentary” VAXXED, a film version of the anti-vaccination movement’s talking points, delivered by an all-star team of dedicated anti-vaccinationists. He then shamelessly fed on the African-American community’s understandable mistrust of medicine to promote it. Fortunately, the movie seems to have impressed no one outside of the anti-vaxx echo chamber. It was widely panned as propaganda, “fraudulent,” presenting facts out of context, “closer to a horror film than a documentary,” “paranoid,” and a “desperate attempt to hoodwink the public for no greater purpose than making money.”

As if that weren’t enough propaganda, Andrea Marconi, a chiropractor and the NVIC’s Director of Professional Resources, and Theresa Wrangham, the NVIC’s Executive Director, are giving a talk on “Efffective Vaccine Informed Consent Advocacy.” Marconi’s NVIC bio makes it clear that pediatric chiropractors are expected to be advocates for vaccine refusal:

she has the honor of working with the Chiropractic profession as well as other groups to educate and support doctors who are speaking with their patients and communities about protecting the legal right to exercise religious and conscientious belief vaccine exemptions to go to school, be employed and otherwise participate in society.


And chiropractors are stepping up to the plate, as a recent CBC investigation revealed, discouraging vaccination as well as other evidence-based care.

Apparently, one of the “other groups” chiropractors are working with are midwives, with whom they are promoting “collaboration” as the ideal pregnancy-perinatal team. While the science-based training of Certified Nurse Midwives might make them resistant to chiropractic pediatrics and its attendant anti-vaccination ideology, direct-entry midwives and naturopath-midwives, who lack medical training and come equipped with their own anti-vaccination proclivities, will be a softer target.

So, besides “wellness” through chiropractic “adjustments,” what do pediatric chiropractors recommend to ward off vaccine-preventable diseases? Another speaker provides a clue: Cilla Whatcott, a homeopath who holds a Ph.D. from the Kingdom College of Natural Health, will be giving a talk on “Real Immunity and Homeoprophylaxis.” According to Whatcott’s website:

The goal of [homeoprophylaxis] is to introduce into the human system safe, homeopathic versions of particular diseases in order to naturally stimulate the immune system. As a result, susceptibility to targeted diseases can be reduced. . . protecting your children from infectious contagious disease.


This is dangerous nonsense, as explained by SBM’s own infectious disease expert, Mark Crislip, MD. Whatcott is disciple of Issac Golden, an Australian homeopath whose ideas are rejected not only by responsible medical authorities but other homeopaths as well.

It is sadly ironic that, even as state health departments and the federal Centers for Disease Control fight the worst flu season in a decade, it is the state and federal governments who create the conditions for this perfect storm of dangerous pseudoscience and conspiracy-theory crankery that will discourage people from getting vaccinated. State licensing laws and chiropractic self-regulation (remember, 24 hours of CE credit!) along with federal Department of Education approval of chiropractic school self-accreditation, allow poorly educated and trained health care practitioners to provide substandard care to a vulnerable population

Quacks and antivaxxers, Science-Based Medicine 4 Comments [2/5/2018 4:13:53 PM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 136370

Like the holocaust, I don’t deny the atrocities that occurred during these periods. The natives and blacks faced challenges, and they were cut a very raw deal. However, I hold the position that we as a people CAN NOT let our (notably minor) history of abuse be used against us. Anti-whites will be relentless in their berating of our race as a result of something’s we have done. Make no mistake about it: the accusations of the limitless brutality of slavery and colonialism are nothing more than attacks on the legacy of whites as conquerors, explorers, and the builders of civilization. We cannot let them use these past atrocities as a means of smearing our people’s reputation.

Czencry, Reddit 8 Comments [2/5/2018 4:12:09 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 136369

Breiter:

You are absolutely correct relative to the need for real Christians to force our beliefs on others! We have numerous verses within the Christian Bible that command us to do so! For example, Matthew 28:30, to wit:
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Relative to the subject of abortionism, we also know that aborted babies are ALL going directly to hell. Because they have not had the chance to hear the Gospel and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Therefore, it is a very simple logical syllogism that any real Christian has a duty to prevent them from being forever tossed in the fiery pits, duh!

In the name of our Savior,
Brother T

Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D., Disqus Grace and Truth 11 Comments [2/5/2018 4:11:41 PM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 136367



Robin Egg:
ROTLFOL!!!! Best one ever!!

Lady Checkmate:
LOL...spot on. Last night, they were so triggered they were walking out.
Thanks Mick!

Mick Williams:
Like petulant little kids for the whole world to see. I think they're driving nails into their coffin of the November elections. Weird.

Mick Williams, Disqus - Faith & Religion 12 Comments [2/5/2018 4:11:10 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Jocasta
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